The common place is cleared up for me too! I wish they would provide a variety of examples rather than just politics.. maybe that is the best way to explain it?
Its cool to learn how to make someones words look negative. The whole politics confused me and I didn't understand any of it. I also thought that the redefinition was a cool too.
I thought this entire chapter was pretty interesting. I thought it was interesting to learn that some of the things I already do are argument strategies. I liked the politics parts though.
The politics section helped me out because its something I could relate the subject to in real life, seeing how political debates and ads fit in with the subject. I guess I enjoy politics more than the next guy, which is why it assisted me in understanding.
I agree with your statement Hannah, I also feel that alot of these tools are things we use alot just dont realize. Now that we realize we are using them I feel we are going to be awesome at arguements.
Redefining an argument sounds hard to do without sounding like you are twisting the other persons words. I thought this chapter was helpful though because I already do a lot of this stuff, and it could help me to perfect this part of my arguing.
I agree with Kenzi, without twisting a little bit of the words its not gonna give you a good argument and sometimes yes it is bad to twist words but on the other hand you can probably get your way on something.
I like the idea of "redefining" an argument. Alot of the tools I read about seem like alot of tools I use or people I know use.. we are just not as good! This helped clear up the common place idea. I also agree with the relevance tool because some people just look dumb when they aren't relevant!
You would have to be very careful with how you used it though, because if your opponent or anyone else realizes that you are manipulating his or her words to your advantages, the believability of your side of the argument would probably disappear.
I also liked the idea of redefining! I found it so interesting and to have the ability to use the other person's words against them seemed to be a big advantage.
This is so true, that's all you see when watching politics a little tweak in statement here and there and all the sudden the other person's opinion has changed and they're the bad guy! It would be nice if they could all just tell the truth.
I don't know, though, Keegan. Donald Trump says some pretty absurd things that are definitely not true on the daily, and he is pretty popular. Some of the popularity may not be the kind he wants, but it's still popularity.
I definitely understand how this fits into politics, with framing and labeling, These techniques seem like they would be hard to perfect, just like in the rest of the book. you'd have to spend a lot of time memorizing everything and applying them to real life several times before you could really get good at it.
The crazy thing is that a lot of them aren't helping our country at all, and are, in fact, making it worse. Maybe if they had a little more practice with the tactics in this book, they would be a little better at their jobs. That's probably just wishful thinking,though.
I think accuracy is the most important part of being good at arguing. Anybody can lie but knowing what your talking about is really important to me. I love politics and this chapter satisfied me to get my fill.
The art of redefining is soo handy! I love the tool Judo: using contrasting terms that make your opponents look bad. He uses common place again here when flipping his opponents words during discussion and when making the magazine look bad.
I like the idea of "redefining to define." I also enjoy the thought of redefining the connotation of something, and that he used Wayne's World as an example of that.
This book seems to touch on topics before going into more detail in the next chapter- for example, ethos and commonplace.. Very nice seeing people understand the book more as it progresses
In this chapter I liked learning abot fact, definition, quality, and relevance; it also used great examples to help me understand. I also think I understand commonplace a bit more.
This chapter really cleared up commonplace for me i just dont like when they talk about politics cuz then im lost and uninterested!
ReplyDeleteYes this cleared up commonplace for me too. I also thought that the politics was a little to much of information that was harder to understand.
DeleteI thought this cleared up commonplace too, but I love when they talk about politics. I feel like it makes everything easier to understand for me.
DeleteThe common place is cleared up for me too! I wish they would provide a variety of examples rather than just politics.. maybe that is the best way to explain it?
DeleteI bet the only reason why they talk about politics is because politics is the only place you can do all the crazy stuff in this book.
DeleteI agree that they should provide other examples beside politics becuase it does get a little uninteresting.
DeleteIts cool to learn how to make someones words look negative. The whole politics confused me and I didn't understand any of it. I also thought that the redefinition was a cool too.
ReplyDeleteI thought this entire chapter was pretty interesting. I thought it was interesting to learn that some of the things I already do are argument strategies. I liked the politics parts though.
DeleteSame here kate i could care less about politics.
DeleteThere does seem to be alot of politics in this book! I am still wrapping my head around the puttimg a negative connote on what the other said?
DeleteThe politics section helped me out because its something I could relate the subject to in real life, seeing how political debates and ads fit in with the subject. I guess I enjoy politics more than the next guy, which is why it assisted me in understanding.
DeleteI agree with your statement Hannah, I also feel that alot of these tools are things we use alot just dont realize. Now that we realize we are using them I feel we are going to be awesome at arguements.
DeleteRedefining an argument sounds hard to do without sounding like you are twisting the other persons words. I thought this chapter was helpful though because I already do a lot of this stuff, and it could help me to perfect this part of my arguing.
ReplyDeleteYess i agree that it seems super hard to redefine without twisting words,but whats an argument without a little word twisting? :p
DeleteI agree with Kenzi, without twisting a little bit of the words its not gonna give you a good argument and sometimes yes it is bad to twist words but on the other hand you can probably get your way on something.
DeleteA lot of this book is just knowing how to work people and manipulate them
DeleteI like the idea of "redefining" an argument. Alot of the tools I read about seem like alot of tools I use or people I know use.. we are just not as good! This helped clear up the common place idea. I also agree with the relevance tool because some people just look dumb when they aren't relevant!
ReplyDeleteYou would have to be very careful with how you used it though, because if your opponent or anyone else realizes that you are manipulating his or her words to your advantages, the believability of your side of the argument would probably disappear.
DeleteI also liked the idea of redefining! I found it so interesting and to have the ability to use the other person's words against them seemed to be a big advantage.
DeleteThe politics part was nice and it ties in nicely with the redefining because that's all they do in politics, twist eachother's words and what not.
ReplyDeleteAnd bringing up facts. That's something politics lacks. I feel if a politician told the truth all the time they would be pretty popular.
DeleteThis is so true, that's all you see when watching politics a little tweak in statement here and there and all the sudden the other person's opinion has changed and they're the bad guy! It would be nice if they could all just tell the truth.
DeleteI don't know, though, Keegan. Donald Trump says some pretty absurd things that are definitely not true on the daily, and he is pretty popular. Some of the popularity may not be the kind he wants, but it's still popularity.
DeleteFacts don't neccasarily** result in popularity in all cases
DeleteI definitely understand how this fits into politics, with framing and labeling, These techniques seem like they would be hard to perfect, just like in the rest of the book. you'd have to spend a lot of time memorizing everything and applying them to real life several times before you could really get good at it.
ReplyDeleteThe crazy thing is even politicians don't have these things perfected.
DeleteThe crazy thing is that politicians are crazy period and they are the ones helping our country..
DeleteThe crazy thing is that a lot of them aren't helping our country at all, and are, in fact, making it worse. Maybe if they had a little more practice with the tactics in this book, they would be a little better at their jobs. That's probably just wishful thinking,though.
DeleteI think accuracy is the most important part of being good at arguing. Anybody can lie but knowing what your talking about is really important to me. I love politics and this chapter satisfied me to get my fill.
ReplyDeleteThe art of redefining is soo handy! I love the tool Judo: using contrasting terms that make your opponents look bad. He uses common place again here when flipping his opponents words during discussion and when making the magazine look bad.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of "redefining to define." I also enjoy the thought of redefining the connotation of something, and that he used Wayne's World as an example of that.
ReplyDeleteThis book seems to touch on topics before going into more detail in the next chapter- for example, ethos and commonplace.. Very nice seeing people understand the book more as it progresses
ReplyDeleteIn this chapter I liked learning abot fact, definition, quality, and relevance; it also used great examples to help me understand. I also think I understand commonplace a bit more.
ReplyDelete